Hunger Striker, Karma Sichoe
Interview conducted June 23 and 24, 1998.
ITIM: How old were you when you started demonstrating for Tibet?
KARMA: When I was in school I checked my country's history, and I could see the reality. Inside my heart I could see a sadness coming when I grew up, so I started fighting when I was 22. In 1995 I lived in Nepal. At that time, me and some guys organized a demonstration at the Chinese Embassy on March 10. Every year, we Tibetans meet here and do a little bit of celebrating to remember 10 March. Demonstrating is not allowed in Nepal, so we just celebrate, but this time we demonstrated. I painted a Chinese flag about eight meters big, and we burned Chinese flag. We tried to pass the gate, but because it is guarded by the military the Nepali police came up and stopped us and tortured us. Two Tibetans were injured at that time and arrested. We sat on the main road, and demanded the release our two men who were injured. This demonstration started at nearly 9:30 AM. Maybe 300 people, most of them teenagers, stayed until 2-3 o'clock when the Nepali police released our two people who were injured.
There was another demonstration at the Chinese Embassy in Nepal where we demanded Tibetan freedom, the Panchen Lama to be released, stop genocide in Tibet and nuclear waste dumping in Tibet. We started by praying and singing our national song, but the police came and arrested us. I spent four days in jail.
After this I try to go back to Tibet, but it was difficult for me. At that time, I had big problem - no money, so I came to Dharamsala.
ITIM: When did you learn that the Tibetan Youth Congress (TYC) was organizing a hunger strike?
KARMA: I didn't know about it. When I came to Dharamsala, I volunteered to TYC that if they have any kind of freedom activities I will join. This was, maybe, October 1997. After a few months Karma Yeshi (TYC Vice President) called me to the office and he told me that they have a hunger strike and do I want to join. I said yes.
ITIM: How did you prepare for the hunger strike? Did you do anything to get ready like exercise, pray, eat certain food...
KARMA: No, no, no. Just normal. No different. I had already decided that one day I will die for my country. I decided this a long time ago. Sometimes I'm proud of myself. I think I am lucky to get an opportunity like this.
ITIM: When did people find out you were participating in the hunger strike?
KARMA: I never say anything. Only my responsibility will know. If I have parents, my parents would take responsibility for my life. For me, I have no parents, so I need to find someone to sign responsibility for my life. I told Yungdon because he is my friend, and I say to him that I am going to participate in a hunger strike and I asked him to be responsible for my life. He felt strange, but then he said, "yes," and we went to TYC and Karma Yeshi told the whole story to him about the hunger strike. Then Yungdon also joined to be a participant in hunger strike. I was surprised. TYC said they would give him time to think about it, but Yungdon said that he already decided to give up his life for his country. For me, again, I got a problem for finding responsibility, but someone working at TYC signed responsibility for me.
ITIM: Before the hunger strike started what did you expect would happen?
KARMA: I always pray that us six hunger strikers are going to die for freedom. I also pray that we will become success, and after success all the Tibetans will live happily with freedom like a bird. I always pray like that. It is important to die. If we cannot die we cannot be example for Tibetan people and Tibetan situation. It is very difficult to wake up all the human beings.
ITIM: When the hunger strike began did you change your prayers?
KARMA: No, no. The same. I'm praying mantra all the time. You know, Om Mani Padme Hung. All my thinking was involved in mantra, and this mantra is helpful for all sentient beings. I think like that. I also believe in Guru Rinpoche, so I say Om Ah Hung Vajra Guru Pema Siti Hung. I believe only in these two mantras because I checked and it is my experience. Maybe later (laughing) I will believe another mantra.
ITIM: Why Guru Rinpoche?
KARMA: I learn a little bit about Guru Rinpoche. It's my belief that Guru Rinpoche will see the cause of Tibet and protect the Land of Snow. If we can do something for Tibet then He will support us. If we do nothing then it is impossible for Him to support.
ITIM: Share with us your feelings about the attention you received as a hunger striker. Lots of people coming to visit. Lots of people taking care of you. Lots of people concerned. What was that like?
KARMA: Sometimes I feel happy because I realized that every Tibetan have a big faith. Sometimes I feel angry because they are crying. I think dying and rebirth is natural, so it is not necessary to cry.
ITIM: On one hand people where watching you die on the other hand people where seeing you fight for your country.
KARMA: Yes, but on one side, it is disturbing when so many people visit us. Inside my mind this makes a lot of tension and anger, and this is not good for person who is dying for this hunger strike. I feel like I have no mind. I don't know what is happening. Too much people. Too much cry. Too much camera. On the other side, it is important for people to come because then news of the hunger strike will go everywhere. This is important so it will become popular to solve the problem of Tibet.
ITIM: When people came to visit you in the tent what did they talk to you about?
KARMA: Most people, they support us and are also proud of us, but they feel sad for what we are doing. Many of the Tibetans feel sad because we are human beings so, it is very hard to see us die. Hunger is the hardest way to die. So they also suffer our death watching, but they know we are doing the right thing. The Tibetans were saying (to the hunger strikers) since the last 39 years there is no response for the Tibetan cause, so it is is helpful. Year and year the situation is getting worse in Tibet. There is no way and this (hunger strike) is the only way to become a success. All the Tibetans praying for us to become success, but they feel sad.
ITIM: A number of politicians and human rights people came to visit and talk to you and the other strikers and the TYC organizers. What did you think about what they were saying?
KARMA: I think they are concerned for the Tibet cause, but I don't remember what they said. I feel happy that they came.
ITIM: What did you feel when His Holiness came to visit the hunger strikers?
KARMA: I feel excited because He will stop us, but if He stops us I will feel sad because I am not success. Then He visited us and spoke to us. I was happy that He didn't stop us. I am so happy for this.
ITIM: Did you speak to His Holiness at this time?
KARMA: No. I had nothing to say because He already know what I think. Before (the hunger strike) we sent letters to him saying, "don't stop our hunger strike." It is necessary to obey His Holiness' advise. Whatever I do, I depend on Dalai Lama, but I need freedom. Total freedom. Not self rule. Only independent.
ITIM: So, you were happy that His Holiness didn't stop the hunger strike?
KARMA: Yes. I also think that I am lucky to meet Him before I die. I feel satisfied.
ITIM: The media said that His Holiness seemed confused; not sure what to do about the hunger strike.
KARMA: Yes. He said like that. Indefinite hunger strike is a kind of violence and He feel sad. He have no idea for Tibetans to do, so it is difficult to stop this. He, personally, always against violence. He said these things. I think in a religious way it is a kind of violence, but in political way it is not violence.
ITIM: Had you ever seen His Holiness not confused before?
KARMA: No. First time. He is concerned for what we are doing and must think of all sides. China, rest of world, Tibet.
ITIM: How was your body and mind feeling over the time of the hunger strike.
KARMA: At the beginning, the first few days is the most difficult. (laughing) I feel hungry.
ITIM: What did you want to eat?
KARMA: I didn't think about eating, but I feel hungry. Then automatically thinking about food for a few seconds, but no. That night (laughing) I was dreaming about eating food. Before the hunger strike, when I was in this room, I would cook rice and put in tomato and onion and everything. I was dreaming about this. I feel it was reality. I woke up and felt strange. I thought that my determination was lost. I felt strange, but then I thought, "it is okay. I didn't eat."
ITIM: So the first few days where really hard. And then...
KARMA: Then feeling okay. Then shaking and stomach pain. When The Dalai Lama visited he gave us mani pill and the shaking stopped. If I talk my voice is little strange like coming from inside my ear. I feel pain in my eyes. If I look at newspaper just for a few seconds tears come and I feel pain. I feel tired always. Not sleeping just resting. As people became more and more weak then no sleeping. Always trying to sleep, but couldn't sleep. Not hearing not well. Touching is okay, but it is like very soft and hard at same time. When I walked I felt like I was in space. Slow motion. If I walk my head is more hot. Feeling fever and dizzy.
ITIM: In Buddhist practice, if you take your life than your rebirth might not be so good. Is this correct?
KARMA: Yes.
ITIM: If somebody dies because of a hunger strike is that the same as taking your own life?
KARMA: Yes. It is the same.
ITIM: Was there ever a time when you thought, "This is enough. I'm going to eat and stop this hunger strike." ?
KARMA: No I never thought about that. Strike until our demands are fulfilled.
ITIM: Did anything surprise you during the hunger strike?
KARMA: Yes. I was surprised that we were taken by force. Still, now, I feel surprised.
ITIM: Were you in the first or the second group to be taken?
KARMA: First group.
ITIM: Did you try to stop them from taking you?
KARMA: I had no energy at that time, so how could I fight?
ITIM: How many people took you?
KARMA: I don't remember, but some people say inside the tent two policemen to take each person. When I was in the emergency room I feel I was dreaming. I heard people saying my friend's name, "Yungdon Yungdon." I realized what is really happening.We are in the hospital, and we were arrested. I feel strange. Then I realize that all six of us are arrested and in the hospital. I don't know what is happening at the hunger strike place until I was shifted from emergency to another department. Many people come to visit and they say that Thupten Ngodup burnt himself and he is in this hospital. I feel shock.
At this time, still Yungdon and me still not taking food only (pointing to arm indicating an IV). Then Dalai Lama visited us in the hospital. He gave the advice that whatever we did we got a big success. He said He never believed how we become big success. He looks at my glucose and He said, "Is it to recover your body?" I say, "yes." He said, "Recover your body. You have a lot of things to do for your own country." Then I feel it is okay to stop. I feel a little bit satisfied. Not whole satisfied. A little bit.ITIM: You found out in the hospital about Thupten Ngodup's self immolation. How did that news make you feel?
KARMA: I feel very sad. I think if Indian police did not take us away then Thupten Ngodup would not burn himself. Because we were taken by Indian police, that is why he burned himself. He had no choice because our demands were not fulfilled. I feel very sad. He's really a hero because he is dying not for himself. He died for his country and his spiritual heritage, so I'm really proud of him, and I always remember what he has done for our country.
ITIM: Why do you think the Indian police stopped the hunger strike?
KARMA: I don't know. Some people say refugees are not allowed to die in another country, and, so India must care for refugees. I heard like that, but I never checked the exact reason for taking us. Myself, I think maybe, because Chinese military ( General Fu Quanyou) was visiting in India - that is why they take us away.
ITIM: India didn't want to embarrass the Chinese?
KARMA: India afraid of the Chinese.
ITIM: Do you think that a hunger strike is violence?
KARMA: I don't think so.ITIM: His Holiness said it was violence.
KARMA: Yes. In a religious way it is a kind of violence, and also this burning is violence. In a political way, I don't know. Maybe it is non-violence.
ITIM: Where you in danger of hurting your rebirth if you had died from the hunger strike?
KARMA: Yes. I'm sure, but I think many people pray for our sacrifice, so maybe problem not so bad.
ITIM: What has been your experience since coming back to Dharmsala after the hunger strike?
KARMA: Many people respect us and welcomed us. That was okay when we first return to Dharamsala, but everyday respect is not good for me. Whether bigger than me or smaller than me everyone should get respect. I told someone directly, "Don't respect me." I don't want to respect me it's just normal whatever I can do, I do. It (working to free Tibet) is my responsibility, so it means nothing to respect me. I'm not a hero.
ITIM: Some Tibetans think you are.
KARMA: No no. I don't think I am a hero. All the Tibetans appreciate what we did, and supported us, so it (hunger strike) become more success. That is why I am not a hero. All the Tibetans are heroes.
ITIM: What else have you noticed since coming back to Dharamsala?
KARMA: Feeling different. My mind a little bit strange. I need a little bit of quiet, so I left Dharamsala for a few days to recover my whole mind. Quiet. Silence. I don't have much money and I wanted to stay one week or two weeks, but I only stay four days in the wild. Only voice I hear is bird. I think about what I did before hunger strike and what I have to do now.
ITIM: What do you have to do now?
KARMA: I have many ideas of things to do. First, it's important for my personal life that I cannot keep Chinese things. No more Chinese products and I will tell my friends to stop Chinese goods. Second thing, in Tibetan society we have too many unemployed. Right now, I'm not perfect painter, but I will teach whatever I can to orphan child. If orphan child become educated he will have his own aim and I will support for him. If he is broken educated then I will teach. If I help one person this also help everyone.
Before the hunger strike I have four students. These are kind of stupid students for me. They just want to learn quickly. Not perfect. Just for painting and making money. They are just thinking like that, and I'm so tired. If you all want to make money then make money. I don't want to teach you more. After that I really promise that I never take students who just want to make money.ITIM: People have been saying that young Tibetans are getting more frustrated. Is this true?
KARMA: Yea, this is true. Most of the young people have become literate and they know the history of Tibet, so they become more frustrated for their country.The young people were born in India but they know Tibetan history. When I meet young people I always check their mind. Most young people want to go back to Tibet , but they also want to be employed. One thing, I think, there is not much job for Tibetans, so many young people have not much to do, so too much drinking and smoking.
ITIM: Is there talk of violence?
KARMA: Yes. It depends on individual. Most Tibetans don't want to talk violence because they know violence never become success. I hope it is just the minority talking about violence.
ITIM: What are some of your thoughts about The Dalai Lama?
KARMA: I think He is present Buddha on this Earth. I believe He is necessary, and should remain on this Earth for world peace. It's important. I always pray that He have long life. He is important not only for Tibetans. He have whole responsibility to Tibet and to peace and all sentient beings to become enlightened. Whatever He suffer for His people, He never feel bad. He will do more for His people. So I believe He is present Buddha.
ITIM: If Tibet doesn't become independent soon and China keeps growing how do you think this is going to effect the rest of the world?
KARMA: It's difficult to say. In my opinion, world war coming. Now people just say with mouth, "peace," but they only do violence. They say, "nuclear test ban," but they improve nuclear bombs.
ITIM: You think world war is coming, yet you still work for peace.
KARMA: Because I love peace. It is still possible.
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